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Post by Julian on Jul 27, 2020 9:35:13 GMT 1
Introducing a new rule that favors your own vote, after the NS already started, is very clearly a form of rigging the results, no matter what you pretend your "unbiased" reasoning was. You could've just chosen Elizza's song without pretending to make a fair decision, it would've been controversial but certainly better than adding some secret rule. Personally I wouldn't have voted in your selection if I knew that my vote was going to count less than yours, which is something you never disclosed. To me that violates the NVSC rule about false information, but I guess that's for the council to decide.
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4,825
8,602
Why can't you hold me in the street? Why can't I kiss you on the dance floor?
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Post by inactivo (nq era) on Jul 27, 2020 9:37:52 GMT 1
just send ELIZZA internal and don't rig a NF imo
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all this situation it's so hilarious I love NVSC
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Post by Hyunzales on Jul 27, 2020 9:57:39 GMT 1
Introducing a new rule that favors your own vote, after the NS already started, is very clearly a form of rigging the results, no matter what you pretend your "unbiased" reasoning was. You could've just chosen Elizza's song without pretending to make a fair decision, it would've been controversial but certainly better than adding some secret rule. Personally I wouldn't have voted in your selection if I knew that my vote was going to count less than yours, which is something you never disclosed. To me that violates the NVSC rule about false information, but I guess that's for the council to decide. First time we agree I guess  but I feel you. I mean I have certain entries that I might not even send or were fillers.. But well.. People voted for that so that goes.  |
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Post by James on Jul 27, 2020 10:06:12 GMT 1
Good morning Europe!  HRT is excited to announce the Croatian entry for NVSC 33 in  Georgia!
The rumors have been swirling about the entry from Croatia and we can confirm that the rumors are true! We want to thank the users who suggested this song to us!
You guessed it! The singer we will send is the fabulous, talented,.....
FRANKA!!
The song she will sing in Georgia is.....Prvi osjećaj (First Feeling)
(2:56-)
This song gives a 90s throwback and it a BOP. We hope you enjoy the song and tell us what you think!! (ESCIliasMANL (Inactive) / Jordy),  (Ste),  (𝐴𝑑𝑟𝑖𝑎̀),  (Cedric),  (alexeh / MaRtIn),  (@garameaning / Phil),  (Dominykas),  (Aglan / Jacob),  (𝐌𝐈𝐂𝐇𝐀𝐋 / Jmain),  (Aleks),  (Gregory (inactive) / Argüello),  (James),  (adamantios),  (Levi21 / Lewis),  (Dimitris),  (Matilda),  (Daniel),  (linux620 / тнєяσиттi95),  (Dmitry / Liev),  (Wysteria / Lux / Ari),  (Julian),  (George J.),  (Hyunzales),  (Dylan / agni),  (MG / H U M A N),  (fabbi),  (ClassifiedCat / jara / Sel),  (inactivo (nq era) / iseendale),  (italix),  (Luiri),  ((inactive)),  (ᴛᴏᴍ ᴋʟᴏsᴇʀ),  (CHAE WITH A C / Syr),  (~Rethnas~),  (Ser Pounce),  (Alper / Oisín),  (LazyPam / ✨ Forrest ✨),  (Matt),  (Josh's Tattoo (Inactive) / deleted user),  (Vaios),  (Mateusz),  (Aless / Sylwia),  (. / Lᴇꜰ),  (Aleks Džehverović),  (myskin),  (Tufkai),  (Maxim / basil),  (Anesović),  (Jens / Blandine),  (Jan),  (αndreas),  (Callum),  (Edoardo),  (Anton),  (kev) (Blandine),  (✨ Forrest ✨),  (Ealex),  (Lᴇꜰ),  (Joseph),  (agni),  (Josiah.),  (Argüello),  (Alex Memphis),  (Felix),  (INACTIVE),  (basil),  (jara),  (Syr),  (Jacob),  (MaRtIn),  (Valensyah),  (hayleyb),  (Chante™),  (jstårsz),  (Tristan),  (James UK),  (Shaun),  (Kinoshita!),  (Oisín),  (Ｊａｋｕｂ),  (iseendale),  (Jmain),  (ROBERT 💙) |
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Post by fabbi on Jul 27, 2020 10:19:55 GMT 1
 Interesting. I voted for her and liked both songs competing so I don't mind, but if you add such a rule I don't quite understand why that poll was even in place. |
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Post by italix on Jul 27, 2020 10:25:47 GMT 1
Why was this "Additional Rule" not mentioned before the voting started? Many other delegations work hard to produce National Finals, so that fans and other delegations have a chance to vote for their preferable songs. Samanta was the preferable choice, so tampering with the results could be seen as insulting to the participants that spent time assessing both songs, I'm dissapointed to see this happen  Indeed, fans and delegations have the right to vote for their favourite song. And by the way, each participant to the poll had one vote (HoD, co-HoD, associate HoD or simple fan). This time, I decided not to combine fans votes into a RoTW vote. Now the additional rule is removed, as its purpose is apparently not well understood. That rule was a way to introduce my decision, which was basically to send Samanta Tina only if she reached a score of 55%, for the reasons I explained in my post. I announced that decision to the council before the poll was closed, when I had no clue about the results, and I didn't intend to change my mind. So if Samanta Tina had got more than 55%, she would have been the Latvian contestant for NVSC #33. She had a real chance. It happened that her score finished inside the critical zone between 50 and 55%.
I will also explain why I decided to organise this duel. I could just have sent Samanta Tina as an internal choice. I know that a part of the community would have been happy, and the other one would have been disappointed because of the lack of originality. I could also have sent ELIZZA as an internal choice. I had no idea if it would receive a warm feedback or just an icy frozen one like for Darja. And of course, many of Samanta Tina's fans would have regretted not to see her. The goal of the duel was double: see if Samanta Tina's song was strong enough for the competition - I was not convinced - and also see if ELIZZA was able to resist against a big icon - I had absolutely no idea of what results she could get in a contest. After thinking about it, I arrived to the conclusion that the test would be positive for Samanta Tina above 55% and for ELIZZA above 45%. A lambda newcomer would be completely crushed in such a duel so 45% was already a challenging goal.
The ideal would be to be able to organise a poll just before the semi-finals but we can't, and I think that because the popularity of Samanta Tina's song will probably decrease with time, while ELIZZA's one is likely to rise, the same poll in several weeks would have opposite results.
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Post by italix on Jul 27, 2020 10:46:16 GMT 1
Introducing a new rule that favors your own vote, after the NS already started, is very clearly a form of rigging the results, no matter what you pretend your "unbiased" reasoning was. You could've just chosen Elizza's song without pretending to make a fair decision, it would've been controversial but certainly better than adding some secret rule. Personally I wouldn't have voted in your selection if I knew that my vote was going to count less than yours, which is something you never disclosed. To me that violates the NVSC rule about false information, but I guess that's for the council to decide. My selection is clearly not the only one on the forum where some votes count more than others. By the way, I insist on the fact that if I decided to vote with a heavier weight than the other voters, every user on the forum (HoD, co-HoD, associate HoD or anyone else) counted as one vote. In a national selection where a single HoD counts as one vote and 5 votes from RoTW are combined into one vote, the weight of the HoD's vote is 5 times heavier than each of RoTW vote.
You also know that sometimes, the HoD of a country decides to organise a superfinal between his songs because he doesn't feel satisfied with the result. Nobody spoke about "false information" when anyone decided to do that or anything that was not announced before in his selection.
And even if the rule I introduced and the way I did it is considered as a false information, then I can still withdraw it but disqualify Samanta Tina. You can't speak about false information, knowing that when you participate to a selection, you know that the HoD is not obliged to take the votes in account. I considered that these votes were important, I just reduced their weight from 100% to 91%.
If that can help you, I can still say:
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Post by zaqra on Jul 27, 2020 10:46:55 GMT 1
Let's discover the Latvian entry! First of all, thank you to the 49 participants of the poll! Now this is time to reveal the results. They are close, which could be surprising for the audience but that was expected by the Latvian delegation. The selection we made was not supposed to be an easy win for the song that was already expected by many people of the community and just a cheap way to secure a spot in OGAN Song Contest. Fabbi's reaction was exactly what we were expecting to. If we were completely convinced in the potential of Samanta Tina's song, we would just have chosen her directly. We voluntarily put her in danger. Did she passed the test? We'll see that in a few minutes. We thought about what we could decide since we are not obliged to send the song that gets the more votes. And now we can say it: we had a strong preference for one of the two songs involved. But in the other hand, making a poll and taking a decision without taking its result into account did'nt seem very logical.
Here is what we decided: we added the following rule to the rulesbook of our national selections:
This rule allows us to make a decision in a situation where the results are close - so we are not certain of which song would have the better results - but excludes the elimination of a song that would receive a large support from the fans. If a duel is won by more than 55%, the result is validated whatever the Latvian delegation could vote. If the results are closer, and if the Latvian delegation decides to vote, this vote may - or not - change the result.
We decided to apply this rule to the Latvian selection for NVSC #33 and to take 10% of the votes of the other delegations so 4.9 votes will be added to the result of the poll. That decision was taken while the results of the poll were still hidden and was announced only to the council in order to avoid any bias in the votes. We decided to follow the results of the poll - that we still didn't know - but with a little difference: one song needed 55% of the votes in order to win the selection while the other one needed only 45%. Now let's discover the results and the Latvian entry!
23 votes from the poll went to ELIZZA (47%).
26 votes from the poll went to Samantina Tina (53%).
Which means that the winner of our selection is the song that received 4.9 votes from the Latvian delegation!
And that song is...
Timeslot: 2:28
The two main reasons why we decided to give additional votes to ELIZZA are the following ones:
- As said above, we strongly prefer that song. If we have to flop again, we prefer to do it at least with a song that we strongly support.
- Samanta Tina had an obvious advantage upon her opponent: she and her song were already quite known before our selection started, while ELIZZA was the newcomer coming out of nowhere. If Samanta Tina's song was waited by a large part of the community, she would have crushed any opponent in a duel. But for the first time, and despite a much larger participation than in previous editions, there is no clear winner of our selection. That shows that the Samanta Tina effect is not an absolute guarantee to reach the final. The song could even be bashed if there is a majority of ELIZZA's supporters in our semi-final. In the other hand, ELIZZA's song is able to grow during the competition and to reach unexpectedly good results.
A mess hun...  |
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Post by Alper on Jul 27, 2020 10:51:59 GMT 1
People host superfinals when the songs in the top are extremely close, so they open a second round to moreso make the winning entry more official and representative in a way. How is it false information when someone makes a superfinal in a national selection that has 10-12 songs if I may ask? It isn’t really “rigging” since they don’t do it so that their favourite wins, but rather because the songs in the top nearly have the same amount of points so the winner wouldn’t be really representative. And not to mention, the host mostly mentions the possibility of a super final before the selection starts anyway.
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Post by italix on Jul 27, 2020 10:54:40 GMT 1
Interesting. I voted for her and liked both songs competing so I don't mind, but if you add such a rule I don't quite understand why that poll was even in place. It was in place because it still counted for 91% of the final decision. |
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